MujinPragmatics

http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/browse_frm/thread/6b0e8115f3403f97/d572bc1db581f114?#d572bc1db581f114

http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/d572bc1db581f114

post 12
backspace  wrote in news:78184ce9-d519-4ffd-8f51-d9b2f6487ab2@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > On Dec 11, 5:17 pm, Mujin  wrote: >> backspace  wrote in >> news:1faffe29-d566-4514-a696- >> 404c72b6e...@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

>> > On Dec 11, 2:40 pm, Ron O  wrote: >> >> On Dec 11, 6:15 am, backspace  wrote:

>> >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_drift >> >> > "...It contrasts with the evolutionary mechanism, natural >> >> > selection, a non-random selection process in which the tendency >> >> > of alleles to become more or less widespread in a population >> >> > over time is due to the alleles' effects on adaptive and >> >> > reproductive success..."

>> >> > What would a random selection process look like?

>> >> Genetic drift. Look up things like founder effects and neutral >> >> theory.

>> >> Playing word games when you don't know what you are talking about >> >> has to be pretty degrading for you. What is your definition of a >> >> selection process? Both genetic drift and selection contribute to >> >> the evolution of a population, do you deny that? Playing word >> >> games won't get you anywhere. What you need is an alternative >> >> that you can go out and determine if it even exists.

>> > I am talking about the word "selection" in the English language >> > which means a decision. What has >> > a decision by a human got to do with the words drift and genetic?

>> No, "selection" does not automatically imply decision by an >> intelligent agent. An egg sorting machine selects the correct >> destination for each egg based on its size, for example. Selection, >> particularly in a statistical sense, simply means that the process is >> non-random. Here's an analogy that illustrates the difference >> between natural selection (a non-random process) and genetic drift (a >> random process)

> You are confusing patterns with designs,

No, *you* are confusing patterns with designs. In fact, the confusion of pattern and design appears to be the entire basis of your objection to evolution; all else seems to be rationalization.

> we have been through this. > See http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com "Selection" implies will and > motive, it is a word we use when we try to say that there was any sort > of motive or will to make or allow something to happen.

Selection used in the vernacular sense does typically imply motive. However, selection is a neutral word when used in its statistical sense.

> The waves "sorting" the sand is a pattern not a design and thus our > intent with "sorting" is clear in the context that we use it. > "Selection" though has a more strong will, motive intent than > "sorting" which is why the word is not available to you given your > premises. As linguist list said "You can't deny your cake and then > proceed to eat it too!"

You *really* need to learn more about the ways in which words used as technical terms can diverge in meaning from the same word used in the vernacular. }}}

NaturalSelectionAsAnonRandomSelectionProcess