Modern and Contemporary British

Time This page last edited: 12/18/07 3:26 PM EST PLEASE UPDATE THE TIME WHEN YOU EDIT THE PAGE [no need to do that now. It automatically does it -- see the very bottom of the page] Backlink: English Literature

[I moved general discussion till after our bad/good news. Hope that is okay.]

I just wanted to point out that the scratchpad site has been running an ad for AMBIEN CR. somehow apt, and hilarious. as is the ad for SWAT assault (Play Now!) running as I write this. Yikes. Everybody pumped up for the MLA?

Alfred U
 * deadline Nov 30
 * Ack 12/8. Letter says "search will likely continue for several months"
 * Ack 12/10 Letter same as above (2)
 * MLA Interview Scheduled - Dec 15 (3)

Auburn-Montgomery
 * MLA interview scheduled by phone 11/30
 * Acknowledgement letter received 12/10
 * Why might they be still sending ack. letters and AA cards AFTER scheduling interviews? Does HR not know what the SC is doing, and vice versa?
 * AUM handles searches a bit oddly. It may be that the dept. secretary, who bears sole responsibility for the ack. letters, hasn't had time to send them all yet. But they also like to keep their options open, so it may be that they're actively considering late apps. for MLA interviews, or that they simply want to keep their pool as wide as possible in case MLA doesn't pan out.

Brandeis U
 * Assistant Professor of Twentieth-Century British Literature
 * Deadline 1 November
 * Request for more materials (Writing Sample/Abstract): Oct. 30, Nov. 5 (2), 13, 14, and 26
 * 2nd request for materials, specifically 1 Dissertation chapter 12/6
 * Can I ask if you've finished the dissertation? And if you sent them a chapter (or something besides the diss.) initially for the writing sample? And why they're still requesting things when they should just be scheduling interviews already?? (Well, I suppose you probably can't answer that!) Thanks...
 * Yes, I've finished the diss, but my previous sample was not a chapter from it.
 * Q: Sorry, but just for clarification: your first WS was not from the dissertation at all, or it was from the diss but wasn't a complete chapter? ::Apologies for hounding you (and congrats!).
 * The first WS was not a dissertation chapter;it was sort of American in subject matter, so I suspect they wanted to see something a little more British.
 * Thanks! V. helpful to know (and the ephemeral beverage mention was great).
 * oh, when will they schedule interviews????
 * MLA Interview scheduled by phone (12/12) (3)
 * Sigh (3)
 * Sigh + barf (I really, really wanted this!) (1) I hear you!!!

Buffalo State College
 * Assistant Prof of 20th c British Lit

California Poly SU San Luis Obispo
 * Assit Professor Modern and Contemporary Brit Lit
 * Review begins 10/22/07; apps received after may be considered.
 * Ack letter 10/24, 10/26
 * Preliminary Phone interview sc'd (contact 11/30) (2)(this is not MLA interview yet)
 * MLA interview scheduled by email 12/12

Claremont McKenna C
 * Assistant Professor of Twentieth-Century British Literature
 * Deadline 16 November
 * I've heard that this is possibly an inside job. Does anyone know anything about this?
 * Q: Has anyone received acknowledgment from CMC?
 * A: Yes, via post on 12/12.
 * Q: Any guesses as to what they mean by "We will be developing a list of finalists late this year"? Are they interviewing at MLA?
 * A: That concerned me too. I dunno for sure, but I'm trying to read that as referring to the calendar year, which would mean that they'd schedule MLA interviews around 12/20-24, which isn't unheard of.
 * Q: Has anyone received a rejection yet? I received the same "late this year" letter on 12/13
 * MLA Interview scheduled by phone (12/14) (2)

Columbus State U
 * Asst Prof 20th C with trans-Atlantic perspective;
 * ack 12/8;
 * Phone Interviews Scheduled as of 12/10

Cornell U.
 * deadline: Nov.1
 * Ack letter 10/26
 * request for second writing sample, 11/5, 11/14, 11/15
 * Email request for "as much of your dissertation as you have completed", as well as teaching portfolio (11/27)
 * 11/16 request for second writing sample and teaching portfolio.
 * 11/29 email request for whole dissertation (following earlier requests for 2nd writing sample and teaching portfolio)
 * 12/3 email request for as much of diss as completed (following earlier, separate, reqs for 2nd w.s. & teaching portfolio)
 * Q: I didn't get asked for a teaching portfolio. Did anyone else?
 * A: I didn't either, though I was asked for a second sample via e-mail (11/15). ::Is the next step the portfolio?
 * Q: Did these requests arrive via email or letter?
 * A: Mine is the 11/5 req. (above); I was emailed req. for a w.s., no mention of ::teaching port.
 * A: I'm a third example. They asked for both at the same time for me.
 * Q: When did your request for the teaching portfolio happen? And can I also ask whether applicants were asked for a specific writing sample (ie, "please send chapter 2"), or whether you could just send in whatever?
 * A: "11/5" here again. To third example, did your req. come on one of the dates already listed above? To answer previous q, my email was called "further writing" & said "another chapter." Yours?
 * A: Mine (I am 11/16, above) was an email that requested a specific sample and t. 'folio, at the same like the third example, above.
 * A: I asked the question about specific WSs I was e-mailed on the 15th with a specific chapter request, but no mention of a portfolio. What's going on?
 * A: (11/16 person again) I am guessing this is a thorough and responsible search committee that has specific questions about candidates and is addressing them through these varied (rather than blanket) requests.
 * A; 'Third example' here again. I guess it's hard to know what's going on: Yes, they asked for specific materials and teaching materials.
 * Q: As another who was asked for teaching materials, I'm wondering: Those of you who were not, what in your initial package indicated your teaching credentials?
 * Q: Hm, yes, are those who got reqs. for teaching materials maybe in doctoral programs that don't require a lot of teaching?
 * A: (To above question) Absolutely not. Those of you who did NOT get such requests, do your rec. letters go into detail about your teaching?
 * Q: In reference to the "whole diss" requests above: did anyone non-ABD/PhD in hand get a request for the entire dissertation or book manuscript?
 * A: yes-I've got the PhD (but only very recently) and they asked for the whole diss.
 * 12/12: MLA Interview arranged by phone (3)
 * 12/15: rejection letter by mail (dated 12/12) (2)

DePauw U
 * Now posted at generalist_and_open
 * has anyone scheduled an interview?

Eastern Illinois U
 * Deadline 11/9
 * Acknowledgment received
 * Request for dossier and sample 11/15
 * 12/12: MLA Interview arranged by phone

Fayetteville State U
 * Postmark deadline 11/8
 * Snail-mail rejection 11/23

Has anyone scheduled an interview? A: I'm still waiting to hear something from them as well.

James Madison
 * Review begins 11/5
 * Q: Has anyone received acknowledgment from JMU (other than for the online app)?
 * A: Nothing at all. Glad to hear I'm not the only one.
 * MLA Interview Scheduled 12/10 (4)

George Mason U
 * Assistant Professor of Postwar British Literature/Culture
 * Review begins 1 November
 * Q: Same as the one for James Madison: Any word, any acknowledgement?
 * 12/9: MLA interview (2)
 * 12/10: MLA interview (4)

Lafayette College (PA) TT 3/2
 * Deadline: not yet posted
 * email dossier and writing sample request 10/24, 10/24, 11/14
 * MLA interview scheduled 12/4

LSU-Shreveport
 * Asst Prof of 20th c lit
 * MLA interview 12/17

North Georgia C & SU
 * Asst Prof of English, British Literature

Northern Arizona
 * Asst Prof, Brit Lit

Ohio SU
 * Assistant Professor of Twentieth-Century British Literature
 * Review begins 5 November
 * Dossier and writing sample request 10/16, 10/17, 10/26, 11/8, 11/20
 * Snail mail rejection 12/1
 * MLA Interview scheduled by phone 12/6 (3)

Ohio SU, Mansfield

Old Dominion U
 * Assistant Professor of Twentieth-Century British Literature, strength in Cultural Studies
 * Review begins 1 December''
 * Search delayed. Review of applications will not begin until Jan 8.

Reed College
 * VAP of 19th/20th c Brit/Amer fiction
 * MLA interview by email 12/17

Regis U
 * email acknowledgment 12/5
 * 12/13 cryptic email about time-sensitive material sent and to notify if haven't heard by Dec 26. What could this be?

St. Francis Xavier
 * Deadline: Dec 1
 * Ackn. letter 12/14

SUNY Cortland
 * Deadline postmark 11/1
 * Writing Sample (10-20 p.) requested via email (11/21)

Swarthmore
 * History of the Novel ("Expertise in... twentieth-century and contemporary developments in fiction in English are especially welcome")
 * Deadline: Nov. 1
 * Snail mail rejection 12/12 (3)
 * Q: People seem to be getting rejections in the mail from Swarthmore, but has anyone heard about interviews? Have they made the calls??
 * A: They made the calls today; e-mail rejection—noting over 300 applications received—to runners-up (12/17)

U of Arizona
 * Deadline: November 15
 * Has anyone rec'd ack. from the search committee that their online application was rec'd?
 * MLA interview scheduled by phone (12/3) (2)
 * Email rejection (12/4) (2)
 * Anybody else get neither interview request nor rejection?
 * Yes-with other places where people have received both as well. A back-up list, maybe? Or could they still be deciding...Is that a totally fruitless hope??
 * Email rejection 12/5 (sigh)
 * Still nothing for me (of "still deciding" hope, above)...This is rather maddening!!
 * Dear "Still Deciding": I'm in exactly the same situation. I'm thinking that perhaps they rethought sending out rejections after someone had started...I just think that once the interviews are set, there's not much left to say. But I can absolutely sympathize.
 * Email rejection 12/6 (2)
 * Q: Have others received nothing (no interview call/no rejection) from U of A?
 * A: Yes, as of 12/8 (though I'll probably get a rejection notice now that I posted that...)
 * A: Ditto, ditto, as of 12/8.
 * A: Ditto, ditto, as of 12/11. Was this the school that was collapsing, like, four or five searches into one applicant pool? Could this have anything to do with it?
 * A: I too have received no response as of 12/12. Given that they are hiring so many positions I would have expected a few more wikifolk to report having scheduled interviews. Very strange case, this one.

University of Colorado, Boulder
 * "British Modernism, with a corollary interest in Anglophone and/or Irish literatures. . . cross-disciplinary research interests and work that explores modernism as a global phenomenon is particularly desirable"
 * Deadline: October 20
 * okay, I just received (11/15) an ackn email ("to confirm your application for the Brit Mod job was received").
 * Looks like they're a bit on the slow side, in spite of their relatively early application deadline.
 * Any materials requests?
 * No, but I just (11/26) got a second email acknowledgment of receipt, saying they'd contact me if they needed further materials.
 * A bit odd.
 * Writing sample request via email 11/28 (4)
 * Email rejection 12/7 (5)
 * Q. Were any of these rejections preceded by WS requests? (Sorry to ask again, but I feel the question may have been buried below.)
 * I had a writing sample request on 11/28, but haven't heard anything since.
 * Has anybody heard anything about interviews?

MLA interview scheduled by phone 12/16 (2) Q. Are any other people who had WS requests waiting for either interview calls or rejections? I am as of 12/18.


 * Comment: I must say, that was the most constructive rejection letter I could imagine, noting that the search committee received 151 applications.

I just want to congratulate those of you who did / do receive interviews. I also have been feeling very excited by the great work in our field, and wish everyone the best of luck this year.


 * Lovely. I am also excited and inspired by the great work done in our field. Kudos and good luck to above Wikian and to all.
 * Ditto. And someone should white-list the department.


 * Let's not get carried away. The letters did say "Dear job candidate"-i.e., not even bothering to address individual candidates by name.
 * [Note to above commenter: I edited you because you crossed out half of this page. Please don't make an HTML gaffe and then just walk away as if you didn't do anything. That's like leaving a paper jam in the copier, and during the first week of class.]


 * Sorry. And thank you. I didn't know I did/could do that. The dashes, I guess? I use a lot of dashes. Again, sorry. Though I'm not sure it makes me an "idiot". [No, it doesn't, but I haven't had coffee or news from a job I want so it was easy to call you one; at least I didn't do it publicly. Sorry. Yes, the dashes. Look: there's an HTML guide next to the editing window.] All right, fair enough. I know the feeling on the NO NEWS front, and I'll be more careful.


 * This is by far my favorite page on the job wiki: who knew 20th-C. British folks wd be so supportive and considerate? It's buoying during the no news slump. That said, erm, I have a question for those who rec'd rejections from Boulder on 12/7: did you also receive writing sample requests on 11/28?


 * supportive and considerate, as long as no "idiot" uses dashes in their postings and inadvertently crosses out text while trying to say something

nice. crabby officious holier than thou job applicants who use apostrophe's in funny place's while editing other's post's, however, should feel free to cast a pall on the atmosphere of good will in an otherwise ironic modernist and pomo climate. have a nice day.
 * Hold one here, previous poster, I think you're misreading the irony intended by the first poster in this "paragraph." After all, that dispute seems to have been settled quite amicably, with apologies on both sides for their bad behavior, Secondly, if I'm parsing this correctly, the "idiot"-caller used the term in the notes only (not the body of the page), which I think constitutes a rather minor infraction. So let's not get all over one another, eh? Oh, and you too, have a nice day!


 * you are right. my apologies. was having a self-righteous and pissy little job-market moment myself, there.


 * On another note, a visitor called the 20th-C. American page "quite the party," which bothered me, because I think people in 20th C. British party just as hard as their Am.Lit. counterparts.


 * this page is the party, darlings. we're it. and how 'bout that wiki cashbar? someone on the english lit mainpage suggested a secret

handshake. All I can think of is that we need a wiki song, inspiried by Bert and the loyal order of W lovers. Oh what is the letter we love, what sound are we extra fond of?
 * It's not any trouble, you know it's a double-u when you hear "Wuh-wuh-wuh-wuh!"

U. of Louisiana, Lafayette
 * will begin reading application immediately
 * ackn. letter 11/1
 * Email request for writing sample and teaching dossier 11/20
 * Phone MLA request 12/11

U Maryland
 * Assistant Professor of Twentieth-Century British Literature, strength in Modernism
 * Deadline 1 November
 * Dossier and writing sample requested 11/3, 11/4, 11/4, 11/15
 * Has anyone received an acknowledgment from UM w/o request? I've heard nothing.
 * A: Often departments choose not to send rejection notices until the search is completed.
 * A: The question is about acknowledgment, not rejection.
 * MLA Interview scheduled 11/30 (2)
 * snail-mail rejection 12/10 (3)
 * Empty(!) envelope received from UMD 12/3. assumed it should have been rejection but was told by dept., no, just aa card. rejection followed 12/10.
 * Q: Anyone receive a WS request, followed by a rejection?
 * A: Good question. I'd received a WS request, & no interview but no rejection... yet. You?
 * A: (Not the original questioner) I didn't receive a WS request, interview, *or* rejection (yet!). I have no illusions about this; just find it kinda funny. :)
 * Q (er, I was "Q" above): I got a WS request, and nothing since. Like A2, I've pretty much given up hope. Just thought I'd ask to see what situation others were in...


 * Oh Wiki, Wiki, why don't you bring me some good news? (6)
 * Ack. received (by way of Affirmative Action postcard) 12/3 (2)

has anyone heard anything else? has anyone else scheduled an interview with UMD? Just one wikian has posted an interview here. does this mean that the SC is not done scheduling, or that the other interviews have already gone to wiki-expats wiki-refusniks or otherwise (consciously or unconsciously, by choice or by chance) extra-wikian members of the academic community? Anyone have any ideas here? Wondering.
 * I'm also wondering. I'm one of those above who only got acknowledged on 12/3 with the AA

postcard, mailed interestingly enough, on 11/30, the same day the person above claims to have gotten an MLA interview scheduled with Maryland. Something doesn't jive here. Since different SCs have sent out rolling writing sample requests this year, perhaps some are doing rolling MLA scheduling? I know, I know, there's plenty of evidence to the contrary on this very page. I guess I should add here that I did get a writing sample request shortly after the deadline so the AA card wasn't actually my first acknowledgement-sorry.
 * I had a WS request shortly after the deadline, but no news since. I wonder whether they did their whole round of scheduling

on the 30th, and that only one interview's being registered on the wiki (thus giving the impression of rolling sched. possibility) or whether they've already scheduled all their interviews and just one person has posted to this effect.
 * does anyone else out there want to cop to an MLA interview with UMD?
 * A: I'm another who had a WS request shortly after deadline & no news since. ::Here's a question ...

Q: for 11/30 interviewee, if you're still wiki'ing, were there any intermediate steps btwn the WS req and the interview req (teaching materials, more of the diss)?
 * A: There were no intermediate steps after WS request on 11/4 to phonecall on 11/30, but you never know, maybe they are rolling their requests, etc.
 * A: To earlier "wiki, wiki why don't you bring me somd good news" - I'm afraid the wiki can only bring us bad news. We must look to email for good news. But email,

oh, email - why no good news?


 * [I have moved the discussion of interview slots/calls that was here to the top of this page, just after a similar discussion. I hope no one minds this minor grooming.]

U. of Pittsburgh
 * Nov.1
 * ackn. letter 11/1
 * Request for writing sample & dossier 11/8 (4). Also requested materials to represent teaching. SC to decide list for MLA interviews around 12/14
 * rejection email 11/9, 11/19
 * MLA interview arranged by phone 12/14 (3)
 * 12/18 rejection email, v. polite but typo in subject line
 * Wow, is previous poster noting a typo petty and bitter much? It was a very timely and gracious rejection, and mine was sans typo.
 * I don't understand why anyone on this wiki would ever call out someone for being "petty" and "bitter" for venting frustration harmlessly enough.

It was a really nice rejection though. As rejections go!

U. of Richmond
 * Deadline: 11/1
 * email rejection 11/27
 * MLA interview scheduled by phone 11/30 (2)

U of West Florida
 * Deadline 11/2
 * Has anyone heard anything from this school?
 * MLA interview scheduled by phone 12/12
 * MLA interview scheduled by phone 12/13

U of So Carolina Upstate
 * ack letter 11/1

Villanova (encourage advanced Asst. Profs to apply)
 * Nov. 9
 * ack. letter saying that they hoped to decide about MLA interviews in early Dec.
 * Q: When was that? Letter dated 11/7, rec. 11/13, about two weeks after I sent in my application.
 * I don't usually see the point in typing "Any news?" but, helloooo . . . . ?
 * A: I also got an acknowledgement letter back in early to mid November but nothing since then.
 * I know it's frustrating, but I think we should remind ourselves that the second week of

December, often late in the week, usually generates the most MLA interview requests (or at least it has for me in my two previous searches).
 * Snail-mail rejection dated 12/6 (12/12) (2)
 * MLA interview scheduled by phone 12/13 (2)
 * ugh.

Yale
 * American/British/Anglophone after 1900
 * Ackn. postcard 11/5
 * Request for dossier 11/5 11/15
 * Writing sample request 11/26
 * WS request 12/3


 * another WS request? On 12/3?
 * Oh yes. Oh yes.


 * is this another first WS request, after dossier request, or a second WS request for someone who'd already had a first ws request?
 * Yale only asks for one WS. It is a first WS after the DR.


 * cool. I asked because I heard about another person who'd had a "second WS request," and I figured that the person had mistaken

a "second request" (i.e. first WS req) for a "second WS request." though it's good to hear that my instincts were correct. good luck, all.


 * I've heard that they sometimes ask for more than one sample as they narrow down the pool.


 * Any word from Yale on the interview front, peeps?

University of Colorado, Boulder (Digital Media, with expertise in a second literary and/or creative field)
 * Deadline: October 20

General Questions:

General Question: If a search committee calls you (during interview-scheduling time) but does not leave a message when they reach the machine, is it likely they'll call back to schedule? And what are you supposed to do if they don't call back?

A. this happened to me the other day. I saw the area code and said "oh crap, I've missed a call that looks like it might have come from a SC member, now what do I do?" I'd say, you just call them back. I think it's a pretty safe bet that if they're calling you, it's for a reason, and they'd welcome a call back. in my case, the SC member had called me at my "office number" (? I didn't know I'd specified one on my callback info), then missed me on my cellphone twice (can you believe I carry around my phone at all times, and missed an SC call twice? ugh). I think this happens, so don't worry about calling back. By the time I actually reached SC, there were fewer interview slots available than when SC had initially called, so get on the horn and call them back. A. This is my first time on the market, so I can't speak from experience, but I find it discouraging to think that an SC would give someone's interview slot to another candidate after trying to call three times. Wouldn't they try to email too? Cell phones especially can be unreliable. Have others had experiences in which an SC gave their slots to other candidates because the committee couldn't reach them on the phone? Thanks to the previous respondent for offering his/her experience.

oh, of course they'll email if they can't get you. and it's not that they're giving your slot away, they're just calling the other people that they'll be interviewing, and meting out time slots. I didn't mean to give the impression that they'd give up on you after a couple of phone tries. they'll keep calling, or emailing, etc. but if you want your choice of interview times, it's best to get them as early on in their calling their candidates as possible. that's all I meant. good luck. Q. But why wouldn't SC leave a voicemail? A. Not leaving a voicemail is, indeed, odd. Still, call them back, explain that you received a call and thought you ought to return it to find out what they wanted.

General Question: Has anyone, this yr or in previous searches, gotten an interview request on a date different from one posted on the wiki? In other words, is it highly unusual (i.e., not even worth hoping) that a committee would make calls on different days? A: This is my 3rd year on the market, 2nd year of wiki-watching, and yes, "highly unusual" is exactly how I'd describe what you're talking about. Buy yourself a nice bottle of wine. Q: Damn. Has anyone else had a different experience? Please?? A: I'm on a search committee and I know that one of our interviewees will be getting a call early next week, even though the rest of our candidates were called on Thursday. In our case, it's a matter of someone we wanted to interview unexpectedly withdrawing from her search, which allowed us to add another candidate in whom we were very interested. Thanks for posting this question and thanks for this answer. I've been wondering the same thing.

I'm not a modernist but I was perusing this page and have gotten slight hope by your suggestion that perhaps the s.c.'s don't schedule all of the interviews at the same time. Could this be true?? I wish....

It's true, but not frequent. Sometimes the committee or admin assistant just doesn't get everyone called in the same day. Sometimes candidates cancel interviews and others are scheduled in their place, or the committee decides they can do more slots than originally planned.

General Question: Is anyone getting Affirmative Action forms only after they know (through info on this page) that they're no longer in the running for jobs? I'm just wondering if this is how the searches run...) A: No. I don't think there's a logic to when the AA forms come in; schools distribute them at different times.

DEBATE ABOUT AFTER-MARKET WIKI Hey y'all: I'm wondering whether, after this job season is over, maybe in February or March, we could all compare notes about who had success on the job market (measured in interest from schools, not necessarily in who landed jobs), what kind of work they are doing, how they define their field, and what their academic pedigree looks like. I think this might be interesting, if not necessarily fruitful, for those of us who will be going out again next year. I mean, the point of the wiki is to drain the process of some of its mystery, right?

Let's do it. (3)

Even if everybody participated, it would not help for next year's search anyway. Are you going to change your dissertation topic or post-doc work, then, if you discover yours isn't hot right now? Get your phd from a higher-ranked school? Or change your personality somehow? All you can do that is in your power is to finish your phd if you haven't already, give presentations at important conferences, and publish and/or teach. Polish your materials for next year and just hope that next year is your year. It's not science. It's not a mystery that can be unraveled, folks. Sad, but true.

No series of events is "science" until you gather the data and figure out whether there are patterns. My guess is that there are patterns involved in this process, and it can't hurt those who have no power in it to know what they are. Why bat it down?

Because there are simply too many variables, and secondly the unquantifiable perception of "fit" will always get in the way. Unless you can get the members of every search committee to explain why they accepted or rejected every one of the applicants, and they might not even be able to articulate a reason, the conclusions an applicant might draw from the small skewed sample of data offered from those people inclined to offer information (not to mention the veracity of the data cannot be authenticated) will necessarily be incomplete and misleading. Instead, don't guess: read the MLA survey of what search committees said was important to them. It's probably the soundest basis available on which to form conclusions. . However scientific this survey seems, though, note the line in there that cites 73% of search committee respondents reporting that their "gut-level reaction" was very important in hiring.

Well duh. Of course it will be incomplete. But it will only be misleading for those making erroneous assumptions, and you should give your colleagues more credit than that. The job market is something that people spend weeks and months engaged in, and the point of this wiki is to de-mystify the process, if only a little. No one smart enough to be an academic is dumb enough to think that the search committees and candidate pools of one year will match perfectly those of the next. Nobody who is working on the Ph.D. is going to scrap a chapter on Eliot because someone writing a monograph about Elizabeth von arnim got the job he/she wanted. However, it would certainly be interesting to know that someone writing a monograph about Elizabeth von arnim got a job. I don't see why you're so protective about other people's time and energy; I'm going to add a number up above to show my support for those who want to fully share their experiences here.